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LB5 for Linux?
Post by steve99 on Feb 13th, 2010, 2:30pm

Carl,

You are a brave man indeed to even try and make a LB version for Linux.

The biggest problem with Linux is it's non coherent and a complete mess.

It started off as someone's pet project and for some reason people latched on to it and kept adding more and more layers to it.

Almost all distros are completely incompatible with each other not to mention the complete dog's breakfast that is the linux directory structure.
To add to this is all those horrid dependencies and libs needed to just change one little thing, never mind trying to make executables.

Even most manufacturers don't bother supporting linux and who can blame them.
They release a driver for one "version" of linux and there is a 99.999% chance it woun't work with any other one.
In other words a complete waste of time and money.

Linux is fine and well for a box sitting in a rack some acting as a server, but it will be a very long while until it's a competent O.S. for general everyday use.

Microsoft has it's fair share of problems and short comings too, (look at vista), but all in all there must be a reason why 95% of people go for windows despite it's problems.

Which brings me nicely to my final point, if linux is so great and free why would anyone buy windows?



Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by mikeukmid on Feb 14th, 2010, 07:19am

I would beg to differ! I now use Linux Mint as my main OS and IMHO it is superb. Updates and add/remove programs is done via a GUI interface (no more command line); in fact it is almost Windows.
I also run LB4 with Wine, which does have some problems with graphics, but is still very useful and would buy LB for Linux tomorrow if it was available (and was fully compatible with LB4). rolleyes
Windows has a majority use for many reasons, one being bundled with PCs, another being that sales staff usually have no knowledge of Linux or even of its existence.

I only revert to windows now to make full use of LB4.
Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by Stefan Pendl on Feb 14th, 2010, 12:28pm

I go with the following sentence.
Quote:
UNIX is not user unfriendly; it merely expects users to be computer-friendly.


On the other hand, if someone claims programming is difficult, then I would say, he is still at the beginning and he will see how easy it is, when he looks back in a few months.

UNIX has a long history on the server side, so people can use the Linux version of LB to help in automating the daily maintenance tasks.

With the release of LB5 and its cross-platform versions, we will see how the market reacts.

Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by Don Malone on Jan 16th, 2011, 3:43pm

I love Liberty Basic, and for sure it is a great product. I look forward to the day I can purchase LB5 for Linux.

I also like Microsoft products if not the cost, and I think Microsoft played a major roll in Personal computers being in so many homes today, but Microsoft is not a saint, even by normal business standards. Microsoft OS dominates the market, because of lock-in, OS price controls and general underhanded dealings.

on Feb 13th, 2010, 2:30pm, steve99 wrote:
Carl,

Even most manufacturers don't bother supporting Linux and who can blame them.

Linux is fine and well for a box sitting in a rack some acting as a server, but it will be a very long while until it's a competent O.S. for general everyday use.

Microsoft has it's fair share of problems and short comings too, (look at vista), but all in all there must be a reason why 95% of people go for windows despite it's problems.

Which brings me nicely to my final point, if Linux is so great and free why would anyone buy windows?



In my opinion, Microsoft initially filled a need, and that was to simplify computers for the masses. They now maintain a position of control, over manufacturers by the pricing of windows install media, and forcing vendors who want to install Vista and Windows 7 on computers to not install Linux on any computers lest the price for all MS installs will go up.

Linux was on its way to be positioned on the Net-book market when MS again, forced vendors to use a stripped down Windows 7 or XP, and face the price penalty if they offered a Linux version. That was not a penalty on Net-books, but all PCs and laptops.

Linux installs have up times that run into years. Updates in Linux can be made pretty easy now, and very few require a reboot. Linux design is more secure than base Windows, because Windows was designed for ease, and not security.

That being said. I still use Vista, because I mostly play games. I have a Linux dual boot, and use of Linux is not hard. Linux can do most of what most people need. Internet, email, and a free office suite. What it needs is a Basic language like I hope LB5 will be. I anxiously await its arrival.

These are of course my opinions, and carry no weight.

Microsoft's litigation history
http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653

A Net-book link
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090619161307529&query=Netbook
Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by Rod on Jan 16th, 2011, 4:28pm

Your opinons do carry weight not the least by the fact that Carl reads this forum.

I have never got near Linux. The problem I have is this.

Carl seems to be striving to deliver a Linux version for the (greater good),(holy grail),(kudos) who knows after so long.

What I do know is that Windows users have suffered because his attention has been deflected.

You are telling me Linux, to this day, has no "useable" programming language like Liberty BASIC! Windows has at least a dozen variants of BASIC, why is it so hard to make such a system work in Linux?

Carl has also been deflected with Run BASIC and potentially an iPhone app ,though he has said Liberty v4.05 is possible

I am actually quite content with what Liberty BASIC v4.04 offers, in fact more than content. But I do recognise that stuff evolves and that we are using some pretty old infrastructure. It would be nice to move on.

The problem is that we are reliant on Carl and what motivates him.

So I don't moan, I just wonder where we are going next. I also have money in my pocket and I will spend it to keep Liberty BASIC up to date.


Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by Welopez on Jan 16th, 2011, 6:04pm

Carl is only extending courtesy to the very few users of exotic operating systems. His courtesy is probably costing him money and drastically reducing the time he can allow for product development, since more than 90% of the world uses one form or another of Windows.

Sorry, Mac, iPhone, Linux, and JAVA users... you are in an extremely small minority of users for a commercial product. A verifiable fact remains a verifiable fact, no matter how many wish it were something else.
Quote:
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=9

Carl is a business man. If you intend to limit yourself to providing a product for only left-handed, red-headed, blue-eyed, Aramaic-speaking centenarians, you probably will have a very small user base and won't be in business very long.

If you are one of the 5.02% of dedicated Mac users, or less than 1% dedicated Linux users, feel free to write your own version of Liberty Basic and quit whining that Carl has failed to meet your hobby needs.
Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by tsh73 on Jan 17th, 2011, 02:17am

This discussion is really pointless. It's all guesses toppled over guesses.
Carl obviously does what he is interested in - so here we got RunBasic and IPhone app.
We do not know for sure if making LB5 cross-platform adds or removes value for Carl.

And, Rod,
Quote:
You are telling me Linux, to this day, has no "useable" programming language like Liberty BASIC! Windows has at least a dozen variants of BASIC, why is it so hard to make such a system work in Linux?

1) no he doesn't tell that:
>>What it needs is a Basic language like I hope LB5 will be.
2) Linux is known to be riddled with various programming languages. It is looks reasonable to expect quite a lot of them to be "useable" laugh
3) why don't you google a bit? You'll find quite a fiew basic/ basic like languages for Linux. But main problem with BASIC today is their diversity - they are plenty but uncompatible (well, same way under Windows)

Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by mikeukmid on Jan 17th, 2011, 3:02pm

My belief was that LB5 (for windows) was coming anyway and that cross-platform was a bonus made possible by the new development tools Carl was using. So it seems that extra revenue from MAC & Linux versions could come at little cost. The problem I see though is that Linux is founded upon freeware - can Carl persuade linux users to actually fork out cash to buy LB5. I would but what about people who are not yet users?

Quote:
Linux is fine and well for a box sitting in a rack some acting as a server, but it will be a very long while until it's a competent O.S. for general everyday use.

I totally disagree - suggest you try Linux Mint10 - everyday use takes place in my household for everything except my LB programming. LB is not 100% when running under WINE.

Linux has made great headway over the last two years.

Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by Don Malone on Jan 17th, 2011, 9:45pm

I don't express myself very well, and for that I apologize.

Linux has many basics, but it seems that everyone that is supposed to be easy to use has advanced structures that seem more like C or C++ than the Basic that Liberty Basic provides. I just wanted a simple, uncomplicated Basic to play with. The advantage is that Liberty Basic is also a deep, and powerful language that many users have been able to push way beyond what I wanted to achieve.

I choose to run Liberty Basic under Wine on Linux as it is still the best for me.

And as for all the Basics for Windows based computers. I again have not found one that I like as much as Liberty basic. Most for the same reasons as the Linux versions. Most are extending Basic to be somewhat of a hybrid.

I probably would still be running QB45 (owned a boxed version) since I already owned it, but I was not happy there. undecided
Thankfully Liberty Basic came along, and freed me from QB45.


Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by CS on Apr 1st, 2011, 7:23pm

Hello,

I know I don't use the forums much, but this topic caught my eye for a slightly different reason.

Linux, well here is another idea. ANDROID.

I belive Android is basically Linux, and as such would it be to bigger stretch to have LB for Android?

Steve

Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by Chris Iverson on Apr 1st, 2011, 8:14pm

Android may basically be linux, but I believe all apps on the Android platform are written for the Dalvik VM, which seems to be a VM based on Java.

While they do provide an NDK for those who wish to use Native code, it looks like that's just there for libraries that integrate with Dalvik programs.


My point is that Carl would have to rewrite LB again in Java to get it to run on Android, so I don't think it'll happen.
Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by CS on Apr 2nd, 2011, 5:49pm

Hello,

Would have been nice as I have several Android devices, but I understand.

I'll go back to the programming on my PC's, at least then I know what I am doing with the help from here.

Steve

Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by Chris Iverson on Apr 3rd, 2011, 10:59am

on Apr 2nd, 2011, 5:49pm, CS wrote:
Hello,

Would have been nice as I have several Android devices, but I understand.

I'll go back to the programming on my PC's, at least then I know what I am doing with the help from here.

Steve


Don't be totally discouraged, though. Carl has developed/is developing an iPhone BASIC, using Run BASIC as a base. Because of the way it actually works, I'm pretty sure he could do the same think with Android.
Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by Kepu on Apr 11th, 2011, 01:37am

Hmm..
I have been using Mepis linux many years,
Simply Mepis Linux ( based on Debian Linux) is very user friendly environment very much like Windows.
I think I am making programming lot more than average user, meaning I use programming daily basis in my work.
and also at home as my hobby when I have time .
I have had no problem with Justbasic and Libertybasic under Wine.
If somebody says that Linux distros are different , yes it is true , but they all use same kernels, meaning all distros are using always newest kernels , so mainly they are not different,
Difference is mostly coming areas as, from graphical interface or how to handle downloaded files, are they automatically opening or do you use some handling programs or are you compiling them yourself.
And Linux is free , you don't have to pay every time you are installing new version, or when your machine is too much upgraded , meaning it is not same computer anymore (by Microsoft),
I had that situation, a few years ago I had to pay Windows XP PRO second time, because I changed my motherboard, (Although they gave me 50$ discount at second time, otherwise I had no change to get Windows updates)
Linux has sometimes installation problems , when installing new distros in some machines , for example with network cards or similar, comparing to Windows.
Mainly because Microsoft has hardware info usually before a new card or hardware is made. Linux creators does not.
Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by Chris Iverson on Apr 11th, 2011, 12:53pm

While I agree with much of what you said, there are a couple things I'd like to comment on:

1) You state that because the kernels are the same, the distributions are mostly the same. You do mention the GUI and other software, but not enough. You're going to spend a LOT more time interfacing with the GUI and other programs than you are with the kernel, so it's having different GUIs and programs installed that makes the biggest difference.

2) While it sucks you had to pay again, my father most notably did not have that problem. He got parts for a completely new computer except for the memory, and he was able to legally install the same Windows 7 copy onto it. He formatted the old HD and used it as a secondary drive in his new computer.

3) The last thing you state is a misconception. It is not that Microsoft has the "hardware info" before Linux does; it is that the hardware manufacturer decides to make a Windows driver and not a Linux driver. Microsoft has nothing to do with that.
Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by Kepu on Apr 11th, 2011, 4:26pm

Yep!
3) Maybe the last thing I stated was a misconception. It is not that Microsoft has the "hardware info" before Linux does;
but anyway Windows has always those drivers for newest hardware included in system disk or system hard drive, Linux is getting them few months later, either way result is same.
Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by donnybowers on Jan 21st, 2017, 02:30am

I have LB 4.04 Pro. But, I no longer use Windows. I've been waiting for the LINUX version for a long time. I use LINUX Mint or Ubuntu most of the time. As soon as you come up with a working version for LINUX I would like to know about it. Eventually I want to be cross platform so I can share programs with people who use Windows. I currently use Wine to run LB, but it has a few quirks. I will probably never have a MAC computer, but it would be nice if I could still compile MAC versions of my programs for MAC users. That might be asking too much.

The only suggestion I have is a built in option for word wrap in text editor objects. I hate playing with API's. Other than this option, LB 4.04 has pretty much everything I want in a BASIC language except a native LINUX version. I can live without the word wrap option as long as it has the ability to do it through API or something similar in LINUX.

I believe a LINUX version of LB would be the best thing that ever happened to LINUX. People would be able to easily create powerful applications and I'm sure many would find their way into some of the repositories.

I'm ready to purchase a LINUX version any time.
Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by tenochtitlanuk on Jan 21st, 2017, 12:12pm

A 'native Linux version' would be nice.

BUT
I do all my LB programming under Wine on Linux. ( 'Li-Li Land'??) It is the easiest way for me to program applications with a GUI interface. Only encounter MS when sorting friends' machines with Windows of various versions....

What are the inconveniences/quirks that you find with LB under Wine? Apart from pathname and fontname differences I've met very few problems. But then I don't distribute the compiled exe versions to others, although they work fine on my machine.

(My experience over decades is that MOST programming tasks can be achieved with MOST programming languages on MOST hardware. Although not always by me!)
Re: LB5 for Linux?
Post by CryptoMan on Jan 26th, 2017, 1:05pm

Please have a look at NSBASIC if you want to program in BASIC for Android or IOS.

Pretty easy to use and have a rich set of libraries.

LB simplicity for mobile programming.

https://www.nsbasic.com/